tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post1551912972528897706..comments2016-07-20T09:43:51.417-04:00Comments on X-Plane Scenery Blog: Reflective AirplanesBenjamin Supnikhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04886313844644521178noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-36731204711565601662007-12-07T11:38:00.000-05:002007-12-07T11:38:00.000-05:00Murmer and aMaLaHaMa: I will take a look at those ...Murmer and aMaLaHaMa: I will take a look at those links.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous: that's what they get for hacking the prefs! :-) The shadow feature is not ready to be used yet, that's why it's not posted. The performance you might see hacking that switch isn't even remotely predictive of how the feature will work - anything could happen because the code is just in an experimental stage.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous: those posted FPS with water at various levels is exactly what I would expect.<BR/><BR/>Kaminari: this blog isn't a great forum for perf troubleshooting. Anonymous was able to see my results (low cost for low-geometry reflections) with some rendering settings. Please email me to follow up -<BR/>I would have expected the X1900 series to do what my X1600 does but faster. If it does not, perhaps we can isolate why. I consider a comparison to the X1600 useful but not the comparison to a first-person<BR/>shooter game...that kind of rendering engine is totally different from what a flight-sim does. It's Apples to Oranges.<BR/><BR/>Josh: please email me - you should not be seeing this kind of fps loss and I would like to investigate what your card is doing.Benjamin Supnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04886313844644521178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-16128218651655470372007-12-06T02:54:00.000-05:002007-12-06T02:54:00.000-05:00I meant something like that. Look at the body lit ...I meant something like that. Look at the body lit up bu the flashing light:<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw9r_VCbqpE<BR/><BR/>Though probably not an easy thing to accomplish I concede?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-42008498013100941042007-12-06T01:40:00.000-05:002007-12-06T01:40:00.000-05:00yea, somebody figured out about the shadow switch ...yea, somebody figured out about the shadow switch in the prefs. But in it's current state this is "murderously" on the performance ;)<BR/><BR/>Keep on trying!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-26309564175682933492007-12-05T18:03:00.000-05:002007-12-05T18:03:00.000-05:00>> Please set the following settings:>> 1. No anti...>> Please set the following settings:<BR/>>> 1. No anti-aliasing.<BR/>>> 2. 1024x768 res.<BR/>>> 3. Then crank up the 3-d objects enough to have about 30 fps without pixel shaders.<BR/><BR/>Let's see<BR/><BR/>AA off, rendering settings turned up, getting about 32 FPS at LOWI08<BR/><BR/>Turn shaders on, no Fog, Water None: 30-31 FPS<BR/><BR/>Low: 29 FPS<BR/>Default: 24 FPS<BR/>Advanced: 20 Fps (the plane starts to stutter while sitting parked on the runway)<BR/><BR/>thanks for your explanations!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-25226209519281848722007-12-05T16:44:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:44:00.000-05:00"The fps loss on my laptop with the lowest water s..."The fps loss on my laptop with the lowest water setting is less than 4%."<BR/><BR/>With all due respect Ben, I find this hardly believable. On my Radeon X1950 Pro, activating the lowest water detail makes my system loose as much as 25% fps! A scene running at 40 fps with standard water will easily drop down below 30 fps at the lowest pixel shader setting. From then, enabling any level of reflection will lock down the sim to 19 fps!<BR/><BR/>By comparison (if such a comparison can be made), Crysis at high detail runs at a steady 25 fps in HDR (shader 3) on my rig. I can fairly assume that something doesn't work quite right in XP9. Such a simple water shading can't be that taxing on my card.Ryusenninhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546629126036819555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-68757743161828456612007-12-05T09:45:00.000-05:002007-12-05T09:45:00.000-05:00Supnik, What Murmur means is a kind of effect like...Supnik, What Murmur means is a kind of effect like that:<BR/><BR/>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/2007-02-03_131222.jpg<BR/><BR/>3D-lighting in external model too (not only 3D cockpit) for several light sources (rotating beacon, or missiles/flares, for example). It's a very cool effect and give some extra effect to night flying.<BR/><BR/>Regards!!aMaLaHaMahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079894156972464172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-4178342409023726772007-12-04T17:35:00.000-05:002007-12-04T17:35:00.000-05:00Yeah...Cube maps vs Sphere maps :)well, sphere map...Yeah...<BR/>Cube maps vs Sphere maps :)<BR/>well, sphere maps are more efficient than cube maps and totally sufficient if used correctly.<BR/>you must update both in the sphere map:<BR/>the ground and the sky. the ground is dark at night...<BR/><BR/>but another approach is just to put a bright spot (the sun) onto the sphere map (without the ground or sky). this gives some good reflections of the sun on the plane. it is better to use normal maps on this approach because this will give more precise reflections, than just with specular light.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-8392004788372339022007-12-04T17:28:00.000-05:002007-12-04T17:28:00.000-05:00I'm also seeing a large drop in framerate when I e...I'm also seeing a large drop in framerate when I enable pixel shading. I'm just running the demo right now at LOWI (dvds in the mail :) )<BR/><BR/>System:<BR/>Beta 6<BR/>Win XP<BR/>Opteron 165 (dual core 2+ghz)<BR/>2 Gig PC3200 RAM<BR/>NVidia 6800GT, 256meg<BR/><BR/>Settings: <BR/>Resolution: 1680 x 1050<BR/>AA: OFF<BR/>Water on, reflections none.<BR/>Volumetric fog off. <BR/><BR/>I've got trees and objects cranked up a fair bit and run at a smooth 30 fps. If I enable the water pixel shaders I drop down to 19. I wonder if this is an NVidia related problem. I'm pretty sure the hit was much smaller with an earlier beta but I can't say for certain.<BR/><BR/>If there's any sort of profiling you'd like me to run I can give it a shot when I get home (I'm a programmer so know a bit about this stuff).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06969758592811564651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-41297673362092951672007-12-04T13:58:00.000-05:002007-12-04T13:58:00.000-05:00Murmer, yes, something like a cube-map, perhaps dn...Murmer, yes, something like a cube-map, perhaps dnyamic, perhaps faked a bit. <BR/><BR/>I would like to see shadows in more places - we already have some code started for that but it's not ready for prime-time yet. Shadows are murderously hard to get right. :-(<BR/><BR/>Regarding the illumination on the airplane body, is this a light whose focus/halo moves over time, or is it just the intensity that is changing?Benjamin Supnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04886313844644521178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-213452122303188612007-12-04T13:56:00.000-05:002007-12-04T13:56:00.000-05:00Anonymous: believe it - this was done on my Mac Bo...Anonymous: believe it - this was done on my Mac Book Pro - the one that has a 256 MB X1600 in it. <BR/><BR/>Now...I would like to hear what your system does when you set yours the way I did...in particular, I want to identify how much the "baseline" cost of reflective water (ignoring the cost of building the complex reflection texture) varies from machine to machine.<BR/><BR/>First, note that the lowest setting of reflective water is, in my mind, "none", NOT "low", or whatever Austin called it. The reason is this: when shaders are on, you ALWAYS get reflective water - it just may be that the reflection texture has only the sky dome in it. My speculation was (having seen only a 4% fps hit) that this was a tiny price to pay for much more accurate sky-water color matching. <BR/><BR/>So the 8% number, not the 17% number, is the one I am comparing! If I go to the next level, I am sure the cost will go up -- the sim has to render more into the reflection texture. (The sky gets put in when you go to that next level.)<BR/><BR/>Please set the following settings:<BR/>1. No anti-aliasing.<BR/>2. 1024x768 res.<BR/>3. Then crank up the 3-d objects enough to have about 30 fps without pixel shaders.<BR/><BR/>Under those conditions, what is the fps loss to turn pixel shaders on (with the reflective water on "none" so you have only sky reflections, or whatever Austin called the very first menu pick, and volumetric fog OFF)?<BR/><BR/>That object loading matters too...I'll explain why in another blog post.Benjamin Supnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04886313844644521178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-33658306128571542982007-12-04T13:49:00.000-05:002007-12-04T13:49:00.000-05:00>> The fps loss on my laptop with the lowest water...>> The fps loss on my laptop with the lowest water setting is less than 4%.<BR/><BR/>I find that hard to believe.<BR/><BR/>LOWI RW08, my prefered rendering settings: 70FPS<BR/>Turn on shaders: 65 FPS - this is already 8% loss<BR/><BR/>Turn on low Water: 58fps - this is in total 17% loss<BR/><BR/>Nvidia 8800GT , WInXP, latest driver (which btw. improved FPS test run from 80 to 110)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19727408.post-50866679638677005662007-12-04T12:21:00.000-05:002007-12-04T12:21:00.000-05:00When you talk about "fake lighting" I assume you'r...When you talk about "fake lighting" I assume you're referring to the standard cubic environment mapping? IMHO it IS currently the best solution, realistic enough and as you said with a negligible hit on performance.<BR/><BR/>With regard to future features of the lighting model: other than realistic sun-projected ground shadows for airplanes (that I guess a lot of people are asking for), there's another one I'd like to see, that is 3-d lighting on the external of the aircrafts. For example, a rotating beacon would illuminate with its shade the belly (or the top) of the fuselage, and nav lights would illuminate wing tips.<BR/><BR/>This is done in The-Other-Flight-Simulator, and very nice to see. I don't know the technical details, but I assume a pre-calculation on external lighting is done when compiling the 3d model of the a/c.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com